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Subject: i have a dog who killed one of my cats and need advice!
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lovemycats1430User is Offline
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05/14/2008 10:28 PM  

Hello everyone I have a dutch shepard named Buck that I got from a rescue shelter. He was abused by his previous owner. We also had a black cat that we believed was a maine coon named Midnight. Buck constantly tried to attack Midnight and we are not certain why. We have 4 other cats and Buck loves them and has never tried to harm them. He finally killed Midnight last Monday. I was thinking that maybe Buck didn't like Midnight because of his color or maybe Buck sensed that Midnight was weak or ill and went after him because of that. If anyone has any ideas please let me know.

DPFrankUser is Online
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05/15/2008 7:38 AM  
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So sorry about this situation. No one can really say for sure why a dog wouod aggress on certain animals but not others. It could certainly have been a past experience the dog had, or the way the cat and dog interacted from the beginning.Keep your eyes on that dog, he may pick on another at somne point. I wouldn't get any more animals, at least for a while

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RedhawkUser is Offline
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05/15/2008 9:57 AM  

  I'm so sorry to hear of your loss...this is pretty tragic.  Although you mention that Buck seems fond of the other cats...how would you rate his prey drive normally?  Does he get along with other dogs?

I would probably suggest that you work on some POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT (+R) behavior modification training with Buck.

Using some extra special treats like human grade PLAIN beef or turkey jerky get him really up and quick to respond to all of the basic good maners commands...Come, Sit, Stay, Lay Down, Back up...without the cats around...then...work on it with the cats in the same room...but if he shows ANY aggression at all, such as resourse (food) guarding...have him on a lead...held by someone that can restrain him from reaching the cats.

I think I would probably not allow him to be with the cats, unless an adult is home/present....just to be on the safe side.

It can be very challenging to override a strong prey drive for any dog, even if they are otherwise "perfect" in all other behaviors.

veterinarynurseUser is Offline
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05/15/2008 7:26 PM  

I would not trust the dog at all ever again, "trained" or untrained.  If he has killed once he most likely will do it again, provoked or unprovoked.  He is an animal and ALL animals are unpredictable.

 

 

NewfsUser is Offline
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05/15/2008 9:20 PM  
Posted By veterinarynurse on 05/15/2008 7:26 PM

I would not trust the dog at all ever again, "trained" or untrained.  If he has killed once he most likely will do it again, provoked or unprovoked.  He is an animal and ALL animals are unpredictable.

Very good advice veterinarynurse. Not only would I have worry about the other animals in the house, I would have real concerns about people around the dog, especially children. 

 

 

lovemycats1430User is Offline
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05/15/2008 10:11 PM  

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I'm happy with the pets I have and I don't think he will turn on another of my cats. I think part of the reason he picked that cat was because he wasn't the fighting type. The rest of my cats don't put up with the dog and will fight back. Thank you very much for your input!

lovemycats1430User is Offline
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05/15/2008 10:15 PM  

Redhawk,

He gets along fine with other dogs. We have 2 other dogs besides him and they get along great! He has been around the cats since he came into the house except for Midnight so maybe that might be why he didn't like Midnight. Thank you very much for your advice. We keep him in his kennel when we are away from home mainly because he seems to have a weak bladder and pees alot but also because of him trying to go after Midnight but I had forgotten to put him in his kennel that day so I feel especially guilty.

lovemycats1430User is Offline
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05/15/2008 10:16 PM  

Veterinarynurse,

I do know that and he is usually locked in his kennel when we leave the house but my stupidity and forgetfulness I forgot to put him in there and that is how he got to him. Thank you for replying

RedhawkUser is Offline
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05/16/2008 7:07 AM  

Actually, I have to disagree to a point.  Animals are REACTIVE to stimulus that they are presented with...that is,  they Act and React to situations they are placed in or encounter.

Since most animals (aside from primates, such as Apes and Dolphins/Whales) are not capable of the same quality of mental agility that humans are...what they do not do is to "plan ahead" what their actions will be. 

"Fluffy" does not go potty on your rug to prove or show she is angry with you for coming home an hour late, or because yesterday you went out and encountered another dog...that you proceeded to pet (heaven forbid!) and came home with THOSE hairs and scent on your pants.  Fluffy may become stressed, or simply have a dire need to go potty and have an accident because you didn't happen to appear at the normal time you would.  Fluffy might also have a budding UTI that you aren't yet aware of and can also result in a fully house trained dog having an accident as well...it happens.

I doubt that Buck "hated" Midnight...they may not have "bonded" but hate isn't on the list of emotions.  Opportunity and stress are more likely factors.  Most animals thrive on ROUTINE, with some, exotics in particular, routine is REQUIRED, if their keepers want them to cooperate at all.

Even though I've worked as a behaviorist for over 30 years with dogs and horses and had some opportunity to also observe and work with some exotics, I would not be willing to suggest that a dog I've never personally observed or Temperament Tested would behave in a definite manner.

Yes, the owner is now aware that there COULD BE a prey drive issue and while she was already taking steps to support this dog in some potty challenges...I would afford her the intelligence to also support him in not having ready access to the cats without both additional training with +R methods (so as to teach him ALTERNATIVE behaviors to call on when he might be tempted to make a bad or undesired choice and to build his confidence in doing DESIRED and correct behaviors with under stress or temptations.)

I would not automatically assume this would transfer to a child or to any human.  Remember, ALL DOGS BITE.  It is simply a matter of what will trigger any particular dog TO BITE.  Not all dogs will ever have that trigger pushed to the point where they do bite.

When we train our companion animals and practice doing the correct behaviors in a fun and positive manner we not only give them the tools to behave better on command when we are present...we also help them to develop good habits that can be acted upon by the dog when we are NOT present to request the behavior.  Granted, there are no fool proof promises...animals do have FREE WILL as much as humans do. 

But, I know from experience that training offers an opportunity to communicate more clearly, builds a strong foundation that can serve both animal and human in more profound and useful ways, builds confidence for both animal and human, provides FUN, and gives us ways to redirect unwanted behaviors to ones that can be rewarded and rewarding for everyone evolved.

 

 

Petto_Princess_88User is Offline

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06/13/2008 1:32 PM  
my dog has killed alot of bunnies but he would never bite a person. he's a lab mix. I still have bunnies but i always try to remember to keep them locked up when the dogs are loose. my dog doesnt do anything when I am there but if left alone he gets them...why?
i really dont trust the doberman even when im present his gaze fixes on the bunny like he wants to get them. my other dogs dont take notice of the bunnies until im gone for some reason....
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06/23/2008 9:42 PM  

It's abnormal for a dog NOT to kill cats. They are predators, and cats are one of their natural prey animals. We can teach some dogs that it's not ok to kill cats, and some dogs are not as naturally interested in them as others. I'm more curious as to why Buck does NOT try to kill the 4 other cats than in why he did kill Midnight. Some dogs will be fine with cats until another dog comes around who isn't, and they will join the other dog in killing the cat. I had a dog when I was a child who used to let my cat nurse on him. Then one day, the neighbor's dog came over and attacked the cat, and my dog helped him kill it.

My advice would be to keep Buck separated from your cats when you are not there to supervise them. You never know what will trigger his natural prey drive.

RedhawkUser is Offline
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06/24/2008 8:27 AM  
As a behaviorist, I have to say that I disagree with the blanket statement "It's abnormal for a dog NOT to kill cats. They are predators, and cats are one of their natural prey animals."

While assuredly most dogs have some sort of prey drive, and many dogs have well developed or over developed Prey Drive...Modern Dog as a whole is NOT the mighty hunter he or she might have been considered to be at one point in time.

Granted, there are breeds that were developed to hunt, to track, but the average NON-Hunting/non-sporting breeds or cross bred dogs are NOT likely to consider killing a cat. Which is also a PREDATOR species.

Although modern dog is not as likened to Wolves as was once considered, they can take on a pack-like mentality on occasion. I've seen this too. But, in studying Wolves, one sees clearly that they do not live, think or function as the vast majority of Companion Dogs.

I would also not allow Buck access to the cats, probably not even if I was in the same room. But, then I would be keeping an eagle eye on Buck at ALL TIMES...anyway, if he had access to children or cats. His stability does not sound as if it is 100% all that it should be, unfortunately.
sleepswithd0gsUser is Offline
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06/24/2008 10:50 AM  

All dogs are born with the predator instinct. In fact, even non-predatory animals have the 'killing bite' hardwired into their brains. It simply isn't triggered in those animals. It can be artificially stimulated in rats (a non-predatory animal) in a Lab environment using ESB (Electronic Stimulation of the Brain). All dogs (and cats) have it, regardless of their breed. It's simply a matter of whether or not it is ever turned on.

The idea that a dog who would kill a cat is unstable simply baffles me - scientifically speaking. In my own extensive research on dog behavior and observation of countless rescue dogs, I've never seen anything to indicate that a dog killing a cat is abnormal, nor that a dog killing a cat is an indication that the dog is dangerous to children.

 

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